Showing posts with label 4E. Show all posts
Showing posts with label 4E. Show all posts

Monday, December 1, 2014

Classic 4E from Necromancer Games

On February 28, 2009 the following post was made by Clark Peterson to the Necromancer Games forums:

"OK guys. I am getting ready to jump into 4E (and Pathfinder too, settle down). 

Here is my plan: I am going to create "Classic 4E": a set of alternate content for 4E to replicate the old school way of playing D&D. It will work in conjunction with the 4E PHB. 

It will contain the classic races--elf, dwarf, half-elf, halfling, human, gnome, etc. No dragonborn, no warforged. Now, that said, if you and your DM want to use that content from the PHB you can. 

It will contain the classic classes--fighter, ranger, paladin, rogue, cleric, druid, wizard, monk, as well as some 3E favorites such as the barbarian and bard. 

It will have some rules changes: 

--things will not be tied to the grid, they will be done in feet. 
--there will be no more hopping around the grid teleporting, but movement in combat will still be stressed 
--the old powers that have to do with things other than combat will make their return 
--spell memorization will return in a fun new way 
--powers will be more limited for the classes, but more useful. Not every class is a wizard 
--alignment returns (optionally) 
--buffing is not forbidden anymore. 4E took away buffing spells. I dont mind putting them back. 

I want to do this the way Paizo is doing Pathfinder. I want to develop it as a community. I will soon be opening a "4E Classic" forum with a thread for each class and race etc. We can post incremental updates of our rules compiled as a pdf as alpha and beta. The final version will be available as a pdf and perhaps in print as well since people love thier printed game books. 

But I want to develop this together. 

So what do you think? 

Clark" 

I read those words and my interest level was pretty high.  I had already decided to go with Pathfinder after buying the 4E PHB, DMG, and MM rule books.  I could tell that 4E was moving in a different direction than I was interested in at that time.  The goals of this project seemed more in line with what I was interested in from my D&D gaming.  I would continue to check in from time to time to see what kind of progress or suggestions had been made. 

Further down in the thread is a proposed Classic version of Smite Evil:

Smite Evil [Classic] Paladin Attack 1                                                                                                                                                         
Your weapon shines with holy radiance as you strike your evil foe.
At-Will • Divine, Radiant, Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon
Target: One Evil creature
Attack: Strength vs. AC
Hit: 1[W] + Strength modifier radiant damage. If you marked the target you gain an additional bonus to the damage roll equal to your Wisdom modifier.
Increase damage to 2[W] + Strength modifier at 21st level. 

Even further down the thread is a proposed Classic version of Magic Missile:

Magic Missile [Classic] Level 1 Wizard Spell
A missile of magical energy flies unerringly to its target
Encounter  Arcane, Force, Implement
Standard Action Ranged 100 ft. (20) + 10 ft. (2)/3 levels
Target: One creature within range and in line of sight per missile
Attack: Automatically hits the target unless target has total cover or total concealment
Hit: 2d4 + Intelligence modifier force damage per missile
Increase damage to 3d4 + Intelligence modifier force damage per missile at 21st level.
You fire an additional missile at 6th, 12th, 18th and 24th level when you cast this spell. If you fire multiple missiles you can have them strike a single creature or several creatures. A single missile can strike only one creature. You must designate targets before you check for resistances or roll damage.
Special: You can use this power one additional time per encounter at each multiple of 3 levels, i.e.: 2 times at 3rd level, 3 times at 6th level, 4 times at 9th level, and so on, though never more than once per round. [Note: this may be deleted if a spell point system is used, which it appears will be the case]

On page three of this same thread Elton Robb suggested the following changes to the Classic version of Magic Missile:

Magic Missile [Classic] Level 1 Wizard Spell
A missile of magical energy flies unerringly to its target
Encounter  Arcane, Force, Implement
Standard Action Ranged 100 ft. (20) + 10 ft. (2)/3 levels
Target: One creature within range and in line of sight per missile
Attack: Automatically hits the target unless target has total cover or total concealment
Hit: 2d4 + Intelligence modifier force damage per missile
Increase damage to 3d4 + Intelligence modifier force damage per missile at 21st level.
You fire an additional missile at 6th, 12th, 18th and 24th level when you cast this spell. If you fire multiple missiles you can have them strike a single creature or several creatures. A single missile can strike only one creature. You must designate targets before you check for resistances or roll damage.
Special: You can use this power once a day.

Why the changes?

I feel that 4e borders on Superheroic. There's a good case for this, and Superheroism is too high an austerity level for classic play. Reducing it to once a day while maintaining it's machine gun effect makes it a special "main gun" type power (akin to the Wave Motion Gun in Leiji's classic Manga -- Starblazers). This will make it precious to the wizard, as the wizard won't be overpowering the fighter. It makes the magic more limited in this case.

Moving on to page 4 of that thread and there is even another proposed change - this time by phoenixfeather - to the Magic Missile:

Magic Missile [Classic] Level 1 Wizard Spell
A missile of magical energy flies unerringly to its target
At-Will  Arcane, Force, Implement
Standard Action  Ranged 100 ft. (20) + 10 ft. (2)/3 levels
Special: You can use this power a number of times per day equal to your Intelligence modifier (minimum 1), but only once per round.
Target: One creature without total cover or total concealment within range and in line of sight per missile
Effect: 2d4 force damage per missile.
You fire an additional missile at 6th, 11th, 16th, 21st, and 26th level when you cast this spell. If you fire multiple missiles you can have them strike a single creature or several creatures. A single missile can strike only one creature. You must designate targets before you check for resistances or roll damage.
Special: This power may not benefit from modifiers or abilities that affect damage rolls. 

I still find it all a fascinating read.  It has become even more interesting to me since I have found a co-worker friend of mine that is unloading all of his 4E books for a steeply discounted price.  I now have quite a collection but I still have not played rules as written or otherwise.  One of these days I am going to have to give it a test run.  

It seems that all discussion of Classic 4E has been dead for some time now.  Honestly, I do no think it was going to be an easy fix of whipping up a quick document of a few pages to use in conjunction with the 4E manuals.  I am pretty certain that it would have required another manual of several hundred pages to get it to work once you started assembling information on a Classic 4E version of races, classes, spells, powers, etc. 

It is a shame that this project just stopped and was never completed.  It was easy to see that there were people interested in seeing the results.  I know that Clark Peterson gave it up but does anybody know if a dedicated group of fans continued this work?  If so, does anybody know the secret handshake to qualify for receipt of this material.  Yes, I know about some of the proposed 4E clones games and I have information on them.  I am just curious about this particular project.   

Monday, April 8, 2013

G is for Game Systems

G is for Game System(s)
There are several game systems that I have debated about using for the campaign world of Toldara.  I discussed some of the original design in the 3E system and the evolution to a Pathfinder based campaign on my About Me Me page.  I discussed the decision to change my Toldara game to the B/X system in my earlier post, Back to the Basics. At other times, I have thought about using other game systems but ultimately decided against doing so.  Maybe one or more of these will happen in the future?
GURPS 3E or Hero 5E
I am fascinated by the amount of detail in both of these systems.  These are two of the games in my collection that I have never gotten to play.  It seems that none of the people I have ever gamed with are interested in that level of detail. 
Palladium Fantasy
I played just as much Palladium Fantasy as I played AD&D back in high school.  I made up some classes for the old first edition rules back then also.  Unfortunately, all I have is the second edition of this game and I have no practical experience playing or designing items for use with this version.  There seem to be enough differences that I would not feel comfortable converting my campaign over to these rules.  Of course, it might be easier to convert the player information over with the inclusion of all of the available OCCs, RCCs, and races.  For instance, the Wolfen could be re-skinned to be the Karnin as one quick example.  Hmmm…. 
Talislanta
I discovered Talislanta with the second edition.  We played quite a few games back in high school.  Future editions added quite a bit of detail.  If I was going to convert to the Talislanta system I would probably use the second edition due to my experience.  At the time of starting the campaign I was concerned with the out of print status of Talislanta so I skipped it; yes, I am aware that a large amount of formerly printed Talislanta products are available for download in free pdf form at the Talislanta Library.  I was the only person with a printed Talislanta rulebook but all of us had a B/X rulebook so Talislanta was eliminated.   
USR
This game system is even more rules-light than the B/X rules and someone else has already started doing a Moldvay Era conversion.  A Toldara campaign using this system is highly likely to happen at some point.

Monday, September 5, 2011

An Offer I Could Not Refuse...

When 4E was released I promptly went out & purchased the PHB, MM,  DMG, Character Record Sheets, & the Dungeon Masters Screen.  On a side note, I have purchased the 4E red box out of nostalgia.  I've read through them and feel like it's a fine game BUT it just doesn't feel like D&D to me.  I want to make it clear that I am not saying it's a bad game, or a bad design, or even going to go into the reasons I don't care for it.   The point of my post is that even thought I do not plan on playing any 4E soon, I have continued to purchase the rulebooks.
This may seem contradictory to my opinion of 4E but you will see that it makes sense.  I work with a guy that bought into 4E in a big way.  He was utterly disappointed and has all of these rulebooks laying around gathering dust.  He mentioned them one day and I asked how much he wanted for them.  Believe it or not, he said I could have them for $10 each!  So far I have purchased Manual of the Planes ($29.95), Monster Manual 2 ($34.95), Players Handbook 2 ($29.95), and Players Handbook 3 ($34.95).  The number following each of those books is the MSRP - that means I got $134.80 (pre-tax) for only $40.  With those prices I am going back for the rest of the books.  It would be a shame to have this many books and never play the game...

Saturday, August 20, 2011

[Rant] My Experience Using D&D Meetup

*Note: this is just my experience with using the local D&D Meetup service one time. I'm sure some others have had similar experiences but I'm also sure that many others have had a good experience using this same service. Put simply, the experience was pretty lame but it was the person encountered that was the source of my disappointment and not the service itself. ****

I used to play a ton of RPG's.  I started with D&D/AD&D back in 1980.  Over the years, I tried many other games from DC Heroes, Marvel Super Heroes, Champions, Fantasy Hero, Villains & Vigilantes, Super World, Car Wars, GURPS, RIFTS, Talislanta, Palladium Fantasy, and many other numerous titles.  The old faithful lineup of RPG's that I continuously played through the 1980's until I graduated high school in 1991 consisted of AD&D, RIFTS, Talislanta, Villains & Vigilantes, and Palladium Fantasy.

A month after I graduated from high school I left for the Army.  I didn't play a lot while I was in the military but I did keep up with gaming in general, discovered Magic: The Gathering, and did actually play a few sessions of AD&D.  I left the Army in 2000 and returned home.  Most of my old gaming buddies had either left the hobby or moved out of town.  I had virtually no face to face gaming available.  One bright spot is that I did introduce my cousin, Alex, to 3E and we still hook up to play occasionally. We have also been developing a shared campaign world, Toldara, for several years.

I tried to overcome this absence of face to face role-playing by finding other outlets.  After some internet searches, I ran across some PBP games, message board games, PBEM games, and also heard of MEETUP. I don't know the exact time frame but I registered for the local D&D meetup around the time of 4E's release.  IIRC, the Pathfinder Alpha was out but the completely playtested Pathfinder Core Rulebook was not released yet.

I was on the D&D Meetup site for only a short time before I got contacted.  It sounded pretty good to me because the people were in Tulsa; about 25 miles from my location. We agreed to meeet halfway between our locations at Panera Bread.  We ordered some drinks and discussed our RPG experience and what kind of gaming we enjoyed.  It seemed like a really good match so we decided to meet again and try to gather some more people.

The next meeting took place at their house.  I brought my cousin, Alex, with me as a recruit.  At this point, there were 4 of us - Alex, me, and the two players we met.  The guy - I'll call him "Dick" - was interested in being the DM. He had all sorts of ideas for a campaign world, some adventures, and even some house rules.  Dick mentioned that his girlfriend - I'll call her "Jane" - would be playing her first game with us so it might be slow going at first.  No problem there. Dick also mentioned that he was talking to 2 other players about joining the game.  At the end of that meeting, we had decided on the rules system (3.5E with some early Pathfinder stuff), made characters (Alex, Jane, & me), and decided to meet again in 2 weeks for our first game session.

Two weeks pass and we (Alex & I) show up at Dick & Jane's to play.  The other two players - I'll call them "Will" and "Wendy" - had showed up earlier so they could create characters with the house rules available to them during the process.  I remember that Will and Wendy had printed out some really cool character sheets from some website.  It was nice to see everyone was ready to start playing before the start of the game.  We introduced ourselves, had some idle chit chat, and then got ready to play.

The game session lasted for approximately 4 hours.  The length was just about right. It wasn't too short for the drive involved. It also wasn't too long and drawn out either.  The session was fun with no rules lawyering or any of that silliness.  Everyone appeared to have a great time.  We ended the session and then agreed to have another meeting in two weeks again. 

One week passed and I was looking forward to another game session.  I checked my email and received a message from Dick.  He explained that the group "just wasn't working out for him" and decided to tell Will and Wendy they would not be invited back.  I tried exchanging messages with him and getting a good reason but he wouldn't give one.  Eventually, I got pretty irritated because he didn't give a group of strangers a chance to gel and didn't even give the other 4 of us a chance to continue playing with a new DM or one of us taking over as DM.  I promptly unregistered from the D&D MEETUP group and have yet to take another chance on gaming outside my circle of friends.

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edit - some text got erased when posting - d'oh!